“Although, let me just say, that if Dr. Phelps truly had his alma mater’s best interest in mind, he could have made the decision a bit easier by resigning the Board of Trustees with no prompting by BJU. (Neither side has indicated that Dr. Phelps tried to do this or has any intentions to do this.) ~ The Hidalgo Grain Company blog, “BJU: Right Reasons – Wrong Decision”, posted 11-22-2011
You see, this is why you should be reading The Hidalgo Grain Company – we were way out in front on this.
While other lesser Facebook pages/groups and one-sided vitriolic blogs were signing petitions and arranging on-campus protests – we here at The Hidalgo Grain Company kept our heads –
CLICK to ENLARGE
The rancorous and malicious posts that peppered the web via social networking sites and blogs only served to harden Bob Jones University’s decision to keep Dr. Phelps on the BJU Cooperating Board of Trustees. As we here at The Hidalgo Grain Company previously stated, BJU could not give the impression that they were influenced by these unredeemable alumni that insist on doing everything possible to close BJU.
“Some of us have no desire to ‘mend fences’ with what we view as a corrupt institution that ruins people’s lives.” ~ Moderator post, Truth Seeking Graduates of Bob Jones, Facebook, 07-2011
Was Dr. Phelps forced into resigning?
No.
This was patiently planned out so that the two announcements (BJU says Dr. Phelps stays & Dr. Phelps resigns) were spaced far enough apart so that both parties, BJU and Dr. Phelps, could come out of this “doing the right thing” in the eyes of those who still value BJU as an institution and Dr. Phelps as a great pastor and man of God.
And – The Disaffected? What about them?
At first they will take (much) credit for this Phelps resignation – but –
They will be all over BJU and Dr. Bob III for not having the courage to take a stand against Dr. Phelps and other men like him – because it’s men like Chuck Phelps that…
…yadda-yadda-yadda – blah-blah-blah…
Unsubstantiated rumors, abuse – and even rape — I think I hear a “Boycott BJU” in the making.
Sure – that’s original.
The Disaffected will always be disaffected – that’s their State of Being.
So – from now on, read it here – The Hidalgo Grain Company – read it here first.
“Tanks of Think & Silos of Sense” – it’s not just our motto, it’s a way of life.
Is it true that they announced Chuck Phelps’ announcement to the board even before the board meeting actually happened? What time did the board meeting start, anyway? It’s not a huge deal, just a curiosity thing. It’s much better to say something happened earlier today *after* it actually happens, y’know?
No offense, Hidalgo, but I think you’re off here. BJU really didn’t care what the Disaffected say, nor does it care what you say. But it remains highly interested in the opinions of BJU-affiliated churches and high school students. Their opinion is what finally tipped the scales.
“…it remains highly interested in the opinions of BJU-affiliated churches…”
Exactly – that’s why Phelps was retained, and then resigned of his own accord – that way BJU gets credit for keeping Phleps & Dr. Phelps gets credit for resigning so as not to create a “distraction.”
BJU could never, ever remotely appear to give in to The Disaffected because of the backlash from “BJU-affiliated churches” – such as Colonial Hills in Indy.
I’m not “off” at all — I’m right on.
But Chuck Phelps really did cover up a rape. And BJU really did put him on their board. I don’t like the Disaffected (and they are pissed off at me again, after this morning’s cautionary post on my blog). But I really wanted Phelps out of there. I sympathized more with the protest than you did, and I definitely signed the petition, and I think they both had some effect. As I wrote on my blog this morning, I think the protest would have been more effective if it had stayed with the Chuck Phelps issue.
While I am nagging, let me get to another point: I think you may be too glibly accepting the BJU version of the resignation at face value. We will never know who insisted upon what behind closed doors. For all we know, some big moneybags board member with a daughter insisted that Phelps get the hell out of there, and the rest was merely stagecraft. Or maybe BJIII himself forced the resignation but made it look much more admirable on the part of Phelps. How can we know? These guys are just not into telling the truth.
“…merely stagecraft…” — your quote
“This was patiently planned out…” — quote from my blog
I’m saying it was planned – “stagecraft” – as you said, Jeri. This is Conflict Resolution 101.
(And by the way, even though you disagree with me, I will not be “pissed off” at you. Argue any time.)
“The Disaffected will always be disaffected – that’s their State of Being.”
As Dave Hester says “Yuuuup!”
Jeri Massi: “But Chuck Phelps really did cover up a rape.”
Did Chuck Phelps report the rape of Tina Anderson or “cover it up?”
Brooksley Belanger on cross examination of former officer Gagnon.
Brooksley Belanger:One question: Did Phelps talk with Lt. Cross?
Former officer Gagnon: Yes.
Brooksley Belanger: Did Phelps report to DCYF?
Former officer Gagnon: Yes.
Brooksley Belanger: No further questions.
by Amy Coveno / WMUR Reporter May 25 at 10:03 AM
Read more: http://livewire.wmur.com/Event/Day_3_Of_Ernest_Willis_Trial#ixzz1f3eVUmP9
I know Miss Massi, you must be thinking to yourself, “Drat those darn facts! They so get in the way of a good story we can use against those we hate!”
But yet, they exist.
Okay — I’m not going to parse the testimony in the Willis rape trial again.
Go read it on the link Ken so graciously provided and let that be the end of it.
“BJU could never, ever remotely appear to give in to The Disaffected because of the backlash from “BJU-affiliated churches”
Maybe BJU couldn’t, but Marshall Franklin did. I think they folded. But I also think it was silly of them to put him on there anyway.
He covered up the rape. He never told the church what really happened and created a deceptive, false impression that protected Ernest Willis and punished Tina Anderson. Than eh whisked her away.
I’m talking about what he did at the church.
Really there are no winners in this deal. The disaffected cannot claim victory because they keep moving the target. As soon as one demand is met they are no the next, nothing but the destruction of BJ will be enough for them. Even that I am afraid will leaving them sad and wanting forever unfulfilled, forever victims and never victors. And for BJ, well Chuck is gone but they still own this problem. Even his resignation leaves them backed into the same corner they put themselves into.
Ok, ok, Mr. CEO, bladdie blah about this. Where’s the sack of grain I ordered last month?
Listen – this is it — I promise.
CEO,
Thanks for a very interesting blog. I have enjoyed a walk down memory lane. It seems like you started a storyline about returning yet again to the fortress of faith, but got sidetracked by this Phelps nonsense. Do you plan to return to it? And were you there in the spring of 1985, when Jr. kept all the dormitory men back after chapel to chastise us about the common use of a certain scatalogical phrase?
I know, I know — I’ve been repeatedly chastised on and off line for getting on the “All-Chuck-Phelps-All-The-Time” Bandwagon.
Yes – I’m planning to return to the previous storyline — I had no idea so many people enjoyed reading it.
– and, no, I wasn’t there in the spring of 1985 – missed the JR talk (probably about “crap” – right? or was it “bull shick”? we used to say that or “BS” or “that’s bull” – any of those were probably frowned upon) – but I was there for grad school in the fall of 1986.
Here’s the story. One fine spring afternoon I was walking down the hall of the dorm on my way to second shift lunch. I ran into my buddy, David Y., a most rebellious young fellow. I asked him “What’s for lunch today?” He replied, “the same old s***.” Fast forward a couple of weeks. At the end of Chapel, Jr. comes to the pulpit and announces that he wants everyone except dormitory men to leave. After everyone else had filed out, he begins lecturing us on the causal language that too many of the young men had been using in the dormitory. And I know quote from memory now, because it is seared into my memory as much as any experience there. “There’s been too much scatalogical language being used. I am talking about a word like ‘s***’.” My good friend George B. commented later that the word seemed to roll off his lips a bit too easily.
Oohhh – you’re talking the real thing…
I got serious “D’s” from my dorm supe, Doug Sprunger, for reading a want ad to my roommate. The ad said:
“Wanted. Experienced Boner”
– it was a want ad for working at the Winn-Dixie meat department – but my PC took it to mean something else…
“He never told the church what really happened.”
According to Tina’s sworn statement and court testimony, SHE never told anyone what really happened back then. She also said in her testimony that she doesn’t remember what happened because she blanked out.
Also, the perp was never charged or indicted. What’s he legally supposed to say?
Ok, one more then I have got to quit for now. My sophomore year some doofus in Johnson had a t-shirt with a picture of a man dressed in fishing gear holding a fishing rod. Over the picture were these words: “Master Baiter.” After that, “fishing” took on a whole new meaning.
“Master Baiter.”
Oh yeah – I got nailed for calling a fellow co-worker (on stage crew) “Master Debater” — at the time I thought it was original…
“Yes – I’m planning to return to the previous storyline — I had no idea so many people enjoyed reading it.”
What, are you kidding? Even if I didn’t know a thing about BJU it would be a great read. I enjoy a true story by a good story teller like nothing else.
You have to admit that BJU during the mid 80′s was not lacking in “memorable” events. The infamous Tony Miller “woos” hall meeting, the hall meeting admonition in Graves (now Ironside) about “master baiters”, Junior’s scatological language reference, Bobby IV getting shipped, “The Purge” due to Brian B turning states evidence (and when he returned he received the Overcomers Award), Junior’s imprecatory prayer at Al Haig wanting him to be smote hip and thigh for not letting Paisley speak at Bible Conference, the “body parts” in the practice shacks that turned out to be bear feet…the list goes on and on. I have to admit that this was my first encounter with Fundamentalism and without a doubt it was quite eye opening.
Oh I almost forgot…didn’t Chief Bud R pull the fire alarm to empty the FMA because the Vienna Boy’s choir got “too funky” during an Artist Series? And Junior’s comment about women and make up; “If the barn needs painting, then you paint it.”
Pingback: Goodbye, Chuck « Free By His Grace
No Winners has absolutely nailed this. The Disaffected will still be as unhappy with the school as they ever have been, world without end. The Happy BoJo crowd has a martyr. The school has a huge black eye. The only possible winners are the current students, who might have less of a distraction when they come back in January. It will be interesting to see how many do come back, and even more so, how many come back in the fall.
Mr. CEO,
I am new to the world of blogs and the act of replying to them so I am intrigued by your reader’s choice of pseudonyms.
The idea of one person using several pseudonyms in the same thread seems bizzare in a “Sybil”esque way.
I am wondering if the reader “Ken Smith” is your wife’s pseudonym. This reader seems to have the sort of fondness and admiration for you that a loving spouse would have.
“John” — I just read this comment to my wife, who, thankfully, has a great sense of humor. I’m still wiping my eyes from laughing about Ken Smith and I being a “couple” — ! (As an aside, personally, I always thought that Ken Smith and Jeri Massi had a thing for one another – there’s a lot of passion there…)
Now, “John”, I know for a fact that you’re not that new to the “world of blogs and the act of replying to them” — and you’re one of those who have been “Sybil-esque” in the use of pseudonyms – or you have a spouse that’s using your computer…?
The Disaffected have been after my wife for quite a while now. Somehow they think they can “get” me through her. Also, The Disaffected started a rumor about one of my kids, which I didn’t appreciate, but, you know, what are you going to do?
So, “John”, I’m going to have to assume that you are, either intentionally or unintentionally, an agent for The Disaffected.
…and, “John”, one more thing, I can only hope that in your life you will experience (or are experiencing) “the sort of fondness and admiration…that a loving spouse” provides.
Actually, I sent the first email of my life 18 months ago which makes me almost a cyber-virgin. I think that I have replied to this blog approx. 3 times which, in my opinion, makes me new to the process. Yes, my wife has responded to this blog after finding her name on a D.C. list(what a hoot!) and yes, I am blessed to have been fondly admired,more than I deserve, for 24 years.
Being considered an agent of the aforementioned dweebs gives me the same glee that a Ken Smith coupling gives you. Keep up the good work.
John – For a virgin, that was a good come-back.
I’ll admit to liking the CEO because he was willing to be fore-bearing with me. But mostly I just like reading the stories he writes. If he’d never written the first thing about this current situation, I think anyone would have to admit he’s a good writer and has a way of hitting the nail on the head.
There’s another blogger I sort of like the same way, Richard Nikoley over at “Free The Animal.” http://freetheanimal.com although the subject matters between this blog and that blog are very different. Nikoley briefly went to Tennessee Temple after spending (that I know of) his high school years in fundamentalism. But he’s now way off into atheism, and evolution and can get a little bitter when he’s had a little too much Scotch. But he’s still a good writer when he sticks with stories. Most of the time he writes about Paleo eating and excerise. And sometimes that even makes for an interesting story.
Most times I don’t read too many women’s blogs, they get all attention vampirey and boring. Seriously, have you ever tried to read Camille’s (that’s DOCTOR Lewis to you) blog? Not a good read friends, not a good read.
Now Miss Massi’s blog has been interesting over the years because she only occasionally writes like a girl. I’ve never commented there though. But I’ll say this, when Jocelyn started telling all those lies about Miss Massi, that was one thing that really opened up my eyes to the fact that there might be some kind of illness on her part making her say such things about Miss Massi. I’d read the Massi blog off and on, but long enough to know that the things she was saying were from Bizarro World. It made me feel so sad for Jocelyn.
But no, I ain’t the CEO’s wife. In fact, when I first started commenting on the blog I was worried the CEO was gay. I don’t mean that as an insult. He was just a little on the erudite side.
Fact is, I’ve got some health problems now that keep me house bound a lot and I enjoy a good read. I used to be a good ol’ fundy and knew of BJU and other schools of thought in the Fundy Universe. That’s all. Like I told Bob Bixby, “I ain’t nobody son, I ain’t nobody.”
Alfred MacGuffin, the vienna boys choir escapade was late 90s. I was there. Good times had by all.
Mr. CEO, I am glad to see Phelps step (or be pushed) down.. Ultimately no one really knows what went through Phelps head other than Phelps–perhaps he simply made gravely unwise choices through the best of intentions. I don’t think people should vilify him–he simply shouldn’t be in these kinds of leadership positions. The real indictment to me has been the statements released by the administration and those “off-record” words of BJIII through this entire incident. I really don’t think that the folks over there appreciate the gravity of these situations–heck, sometimes I wonder if they even believe that sexual harassment / abuse occurs (or if it could all be prevented by a girl saying NO!). I don’t know, but that is what makes me more sad / upset / concerned than anything else.
I will look forward to you returning to your regularly scheduled programming. All of this The Disaffected vs Hidalgo vs Jeri vs BJU vs Do Right vs Whoever Else grows tiresome. I think if we all sat down together for a cuppa jones we would realize that there is so much more in common than there is different between us. But I’m a peace-loving hippie beatnik like that.
“I think if we all sat down together for a cuppa jones we would realize that there is so much more in common than there is different between us.”
I have in the past proposed a “BJU Beer Summit” but, so far, no takers.
You may be right however, I suggest alcohol – but – if you insist on coffee, we need to go to Starbucks or Drowsy Poet. Dr. Bob Jones III has to be “out of his comfort zone” if we’re going to make any progess at all.
And peace-loving-hippie-beatniks are some of my favorite people. Eventually, I’ll tell that story…
Been reading for a while. Don’t think I’ve commented before, but man some middle age nostalgia has overwhelmed me and I can resist no longer . . .
Alfred, I was on “Brian B’s” “Night Clean Up” crew in the Academy during the time that he turned “state’s evidence.” And, I was in Phi Beta Chi. Not sure how I escaped “The Purge”. Not that I had done anything shippable mind you — other than being friends with a whole bunch of guys who apparently had, which was often more than enough to justify exile.
I SAW the “body parts” in the practice shacks heading back to the dorms after clearning the Acad (to this day the best practical joke I’ve ever witnessed — it got a special chapel reprimand too!). I was in the Founder’s Memorial Amphitorium for JR’s “Scatalogical Language” chat (but please don’t use BoJo language and call us dorm “men” — I always hated it when they called us “men” and then treated us like elementary school boys). A good friend of mine recorded one of Mr. Miller’s radio hall meetings, then I took it to the WBJU radio lab and made a remix of it so it sounded like Mr. Miller was rapping. I don’t think it was the “woos” meeting. All I remember is “Men, you cannot wear your ties at half-mast. After lunch, if you don’t want to wear it you need to put it in a bag, a briefcase or a pocket . . . a bag, a bbbbag, a briefcase, or a pppppocket . . . a bag, a briefcase, or a pocket . . . . now men . . . ”
You forgot to mention the BoJo 5-0 who accidently fired his gun through the wall of the back campus security shack. And, I’m sure there’s many more good ones we’re both forgetting. Maybe someone else will share a few.
What a crazy place. When I left, though, similar to the CEO, I decided to get a life and to not let BJU control me for the rest of my life the way they did while I was inside.
Thanks for the memories.
Keith Phillips
“…the “body parts” in the practice shacks…”
That was my former PC, James Witt, who was instrumental in having me shipped.
Witt was a total weirdo – ultra-religious and just a total screw-ball. He worked part-time for a local taxidermist and was able to get the animal parts for the “joke” which, Dr. Bob III did not think was funny.
What! Someone who would pull a prank like that would also be an intentional part of getting someone shipped!
Well, of course, Brian Baughman was no choir boy prior to cutting a deal to enter the witness protection program. So, I guess nothing should be surprising — especially under the conditions/culture at the Fortress of the Faith.
I remember that III didn’t think it was funny. Which really was just one more piece of evidence how he was not a real guy. I mean, I’d have chewed out Witt for embarrasing me and my security force with the Greenville Police, but I’d have been laughing as I did. I mean, is it really THAT hard to say, “This is hillarious, but we can’t have any more of it.
Oh well. What a small world.
Keith Phillips
“…Brian Baughman…”
I am very familiar with his guy – and “The Purge”. Baughman was the very definition of a BJU “stoolie”…
I considered myself a survival of The Purge but, I always wondered how the BJU Administration/Dean of Men had gathered evidence against me. Might’ve been guys like Baughman, spilling their guts just to stay on the University’s “Good (God?) Side”.
It was many years later that I met Brian’s brother, then a youth pastor for a church in Pensacola, Florida.
Sounds like BJU was even more fun after I left . . . or maybe I was just such a naive good little boy that I was completely out of the loop on those kinds of things. After hearing the horror stories about how people could get expelled for just about anything including those who knew something but did not tattle, I isolated myself into my own little world of BJU academia with such a passion that I really had no idea what was going on around me. I liked it that way because if I ever got called into the Dean’s office I would be able to honestly say I never heard about any such thing going on. Plus, any trouble makers knew better than to involve me in any of their escapades because I made myself somewhat unfriendly to everyone–not one of those guys anyone really cared to get to know. It was part of my way of surviving my four years there. I never knew many people and when I graduated, I had no friends except for my “campus sister” who later became and still is my wife. I now proudly say that she is the only good thing I got out of my four years at BJU!
“Most times I don’t read too many women’s blogs, they get all attention vampirey and boring. Seriously, have you ever tried to read Camille’s (that’s DOCTOR Lewis to you) blog? Not a good read friends, not a good read.
Now Miss Massi’s blog has been interesting over the years because she only occasionally writes like a girl.”
And those lines right there confirm what I’ve thought about Ken for awhile now. Thank you for the illustration.
Getting back to your title and blog post itself – BJU: Phelps Fatigue…. :-)
I cannot bring myself to spend more than about a couple seconds on the Do Right page and on any of the BJ-bashing pages. It works my last nerve, worse than ever, so I won’t even go to them any more.
I’m glad Phelps is off the board, no matter how it happened. It was an answer to prayer for me and many others. The Lord intervened. As the Disaffected and their young student acolytes continue to beat up Phelps and Triple Sticks, I think they may be making it harder for what they say they want to happen to actually happen – that apologies be offered to individuals, to the students, to Christendom at large, and to pretty much anyone who has ever driven past the university on Wade Hampton Blvd. I have seen in my life that when any of us try to play the Holy Spirit for others, it makes it that much harder for them to yield to the promptings of the real Holy Spirit. True repentance, which is what we want to see here, is the solely the work of God’s Spirit in that person’s heart. When we criticize, nag, taunt, etc., it makes the person we’re trying to bring under conviction all the more stubborn and prideful.
If Phelps or III are paying any attention at all to the tirades and histrionics out there (which is doubtful), they know that people are still dissatisfied. So these people might want to consider opening their mouths only to pray, asking the blessed Holy Spirit to do His work, instead of engaging in high-tech gossip.
So, yes, I have Phelps fatigue. Heaven looks sweeter all the time!!!
““Most times I don’t read too many women’s blogs, they get all attention vampirey and boring. Seriously, have you ever tried to read Camille’s (that’s DOCTOR Lewis to you) blog? Not a good read friends, not a good read.”
That’s only because she got her doctorate from Indiana University. If she had gotten it from BJU instead, she would have learned to write better.
“…Camille’s (that’s DOCTOR Lewis to you) blog…”
Buddy — Great comment. I don’t know how many times I’ve thought, “Why is she bragging about a doctorate from Indiana University?” (Their biggest claim to fame being the film Breaking Away…)
I usually respect people who have earned a PhD by addressing them as “Doctor” – but – what I don’t respect are people who demand to be addressed as “doctor”.
QUICK JOKE: What do you call the person who finishes last in their class at med school?
“Doctor”
Well, no offense to Camille, but her blog is just too “me, me, it’s all about me” centered.
But if I could ask, and maybe the CEO would want to start a new thread, but why did any of you end up at BJU in the first place if you didn’t agree with where they stood and why did any of you stay after finding out what it was really like?
That would be interesting to hear about.
My son was kind of interested in going to PCC. But I had some first hand knowledge of how things were down there and while I love to visit Pensacola (ugly as most of it is), I just couldn’t see him spending 4 years in bondage to a place where you aren’t allowed to grow up.
BJU wasn’t even on the radar for us. Too much money to spend for a degree that wouldn’t be respected when it was all said and done. Plus, every preacher I’ve ever heard from BJU was a preener.
Ken, As I understand it a number of the women bloggers have asked you not to read and comment on their blogs. Maybe for Christmas you could do that for them and leave them alone? It is a gift I know they all would love!
“why did any of you end up at BJU in the first place if you didn’t agree with where they stood and why did any of you stay after finding out what it was really like?”
End up there: Parents went there. Parents encouraged it. Seemed better and more like real college than the other “colleges” in what was our universe at the time.
Stay: Young, foolish, took a while to figure out that it was ok to not agree, and by then had made friends and was dating future wife, and was too close to done not to just stick it out.
Do over: Of course with all the clarity of hindsight, sure I should have left or been shipped for protesting the “no big deal” interracial dating policy or vaious other things. But, life is what it is. How else do you learn and grow and figure it out without just going through it?
“Ken, As I understand it a number of the women bloggers have asked you not to read and comment on their blogs.”
Ain’t never heard that tale before. Especially since I’m mostly a men’s reader, Miss Massi being an exception. And I don’t comment there because it doesn’t seem fittin’ for an older man to post comments on a young single lady’s blog.
You must be confused about Bob Bixby’s blog and maybe you were thinkin’ he was a female. Easy mistake with some of the feminine leaning posts he’s made these past few days. http://bobbixby.wordpress.com/2011/11/29/why-i-signed-the-petition-to-remove-chuck-phelps-from-the-board-of-bob-jones-university/
I called him on that one and asked him to provide proof of the published INCORRECT and very serious assertions he made about Phelps and rather than even answer me, he made some hoity toity post saying he’d asked me not to post at his blog. If he did, I never saw it, especially since I never posted there that much.
The coward rushed over to Laurie Moody’s twitter feed after I confronted him and begged her to send him some evidence to back up the claim he made WITHOUT EVEN HAVING ANY FACTS which to my mind makes what his did down right bottom of the barrel trashy. He got it in his mind that he was going to smear Phelps and so he did, but he had not fact one to back up his libel.
So I did what any man would do: I called him on. Because to me, what he was doing in using his bully pulpit to spread lies about Phelps was a crime that TO ME ANYWAY means he sure ain’t fit to pastor a church.
He wussed out and wouldn’t answer me. And I answered his post asking for information, but he kept it back and then told people he wouldn’t let me post until I answered his questions. And I’d answered his questions, he was just lying to them folks. He had no intention of being honest about that either.
Then right after that he made a big post about how manly he was (yes he used that word) and how David Doran wasn’t. I guess his NyQuil wore off because he jerked it down the next morning and said it was because too many people were bashing Doran and that wasn’t his intention. But I was up pretty late that night and read most of the comments and not a one had anything to say about Doran. But they were all critical of what he (Bob) wrote.
So it’s alright with me that he is acting that way towards me, now that I know his true character. I’m none too impressed.
Ken, your attitude towards women in general seems to be pretty patronizing at best. That was the point of my last post.
As for me, why did I choose BJU? I didn’t, really. Growing up my parents just talked about me going to BJU one day as though it was the only college I could possibly consider. So many of my relatives had gone there that it just seemed logical. They had the major I wanted plus it was the only school my parents said they would pay for. So my parents didn’t force me, but they wouldn’t allow me to visit any other colleges, and I was not in any position to go against them. And I had a good time there. I met my husband and made some wonderful friends, and my degree has never been questioned.
As an adult, especially in the last few years, my perception of the school has changed a lot, and the whole Phelps thing has been the final nail in the coffin.
Dear Ken,
You use femininity to insult men. Doing so insults God. Both men and women were created in the image of God reflect different aspects of him. In you posts above you demean the women bloggers you mentioned. It isn’t just that you disagree, you must also demean them.
And I know Stitch has asked you not to post on her blog.
You like your make your point, but you like to hurt and make and effort to demean and destroy others in the process. Perhaps you are blind to it, but you do it. It is your reputation online.
(By the way for people who can’t figure this out, this isn’t my real name and I am not Polaris either)
Ken let me include you in the sing along….
His name is my name, too.
Whenever we go out,
The people always shout,
demean the other guy til there is no doubt
let em know he won’t win this bout
hurting others is my route
men are the ones with clout
That’s what I’m talking about!
Dah dah dah dah, dah dah dah
Everybody all together sing it one more time!
Okay — I’m not defending Ken – but – Ken didn’t come up with this stuff.
Scripture – especially the “Old” Testament – is replete with the abuse, neglect and subjugation of females.
So, perhaps, Ken is sticking to the dictates of the OT – like Dr. Chuck Phleps when he used Deuteronomy to counsel a rape victim (Tina) in his New Hampshire church. So, back off – Ken is just sticking to a literal interpretation of scripture.
It wasn’t until the New Testament that we have the idea that men and women are “co-heirs” in salvation – a revolutionary idea in a society where women (wives) took on the feminine form of their husband’s name and had little or no rights.
So – relax – I’m sure Ken will eventually get to the NT and leave behind the idea that women are inferior…
…all I’m saying is – keep in mind that Ken didn’t start the fire…
“Ken, your attitude towards women in general seems to be pretty patronizing at best. That was the point of my last post.”
Sister, I love women. My mother was a godly lady and my grandmother was a saint; and all the years she’s been gone, I still grieve for her. I miss her daily. I am crying a silent tear right now for the thought of that precious lady.
My wife has been the stalwart of my life, I’d willingly die for her and my love and esteem for her grows stronger even as our years fade away.
But I’m a man. I like manly things. I like to read what men have to say on current issues. Iron sharpeneth iron. I don’t feel as if an apology is in order for being the way God made me.
I’ll grant you that there are some smart women out there. But it sort of makes me ill feeling in my stomach to know that women who proport to be mothers of little children are spending so much time on line with their backs turned to their children. Or away from home all day. I believe in keepers at home.
And this might sound strange to modern ears, but I also don’t really care for those men preachers who spend so much time online blogging and tweeting emotionally fraught essays while their wife works a full time job and the men stay home with the children, only to preach one or two days a week. Shave that mess of your reformed face and get a job and support your family! Stop the agonizing of the beer and cigar issues and just get a job and be manly.
1 Corinthians 16:13 ¶Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong.
And thank you to the folks that answered that questions about why stay at BJU. That has been interesting to know. Looking forward to more.
“And I know Stitch has asked you not to post on her blog.”
Actually, I don’t even read that blog too much any more. It’s sickening. I couldn’t handle the constant pouring out of that girl telling people why she got shipped from BJU and how it was wrong of BJU when she knew that pre-marital sex was against the rules there. I also thought it was wrong of her to brag about getting some very expensive piercings and tattoos (husband) and then go online and then beg for money from her readers.
And to my knowledge she never asked me to to post there, she just said if it wasn’t nice don’t say it.
But you ask Stitch who was the person who advised her to take her real name off her blog and advised her to stop sharing such personal details (some that denigrated her and her husband) and you’ll find she has one name to give you, and that’s Ken Smith.
Ah my friend, but you do read it. We are finding you are in fact quite a closet fan of women’s blogs. I wonder how many more if we questioned you that you would say, no I don’t read women’s blogs, well actually I do read that one once in a while. LOL :)
Anyway back to my point. It is degrading to women to use femininity to put down others. Like if a man has feminine qualities he is less of a man. God Himself has feminine qualities and when He created woman, he called her good. God is male and masculine in every sense, but He also says how often He wished He could hold and protect us and take us in like a mother hen. If you called a guy a mother hen we think of it as insult, but God in describing Himself as such seeks to convey His tender protecting love.
Listen as the very manly Jesus speaks about wanting to act like a mother hen, Mat 23:37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!”
Ken, I don’t know you at all except for where I’ve run into you online. I have no idea what’s gone on with you, Laurie Moody’s feed, and Stitching Seams. I’m sure that you love your mom, your wife, and probably other women in your life. That’s not the issue. The issue is when you say things like “it’s good when she doesn’t write like a girl”–what a put down. What a hurtful thing to say. The Jesus that went out of His way to speak to the woman at the well would never have said something like that. It doesn’t mean that you don’t love women–it just means you have a habit of really putting them down, too. I hope you can see that one day.
What is a Laurie Moody feed? Nothing in the world has gone on with me and someone else and I don’t think you should talk that way.
The fact is sister, I’m a man. I don’t have to be interested in or invested in the emotional and often drama loaded blogs that most women write. That’s their prerogative to write according to their personality dictates. That’s how God made ‘em.
It’s also my prerogative to ENJOY reading things from a man’s perspective. That doesn’t mean I have not read or never found anything of value at a woman’s blog. It just means that I enjoy reading from a man’s perspective. By that same token, I don’t think I would want to listen to a woman preach.
If your’e married, I don’t expect you’d take too kindly to it if your husband started calling you and reminding you to DVR his favorite soap operas, or if he started bringing home an overload of female romances to read.
I know it might upset you terribly to know this, but the Bible does have certain roles for the sexes. That doesn’t mean God hates you or He is being demeaning or “mean.” It just means that’s how He created you.
“Ah my friend, but you do read it. We are finding you are in fact quite a closet fan of women’s blogs. I wonder how many more if we questioned you that you would say, no I don’t read women’s blogs, well actually I do read that one once in a while.”
I believe if you’ll refer to my first comment I said “Especially since I’m mostly a men’s reader.” I am mostly a men’s reader. That’s just the way it is. And nothing about me is “in the closet.” When I’ve read something and agreed or disagreed I’ve left a comment with my name. But I most enjoy reading things from a man’s perspective. No apologies.
I’m not sure what your argument is when you bring up the attributes of God?
I’m not God and I’m not a mother hen.
I’m not really sure why I was brought into this, but if anyone’s interested in what Ken’s saying, here’s the posts he was referencing: A ceaseless stumbling on (http://stitchinguptheseams.wordpress.com/2011/07/04/a-ceaseless-stumbling-on/) and Transparency even when it hurts (http://stitchinguptheseams.wordpress.com/2011/09/12/transparency-even-when-it-hurts/). I’m really fighting the urge to explain myself, but really…there’s no need. To my own Master I stand or fall, no one else. Thank God.
“The coward rushed over to Laurie Moody’s twitter feed after I confronted him”
That’s the Laurie Moody feed I’m talking about.
Ken, I don’t blame you for preferring things from a man’s perspective. I totally get that. A lot of times I like to get things from a woman’s perspective. But your posts go further than that. You put down what women write, simply because they’re women.
Yes, I would be offended if my hubby asked me to DVR his favorite soap opera, or bring him an overload of female romances. I would also be offended if my teenaged daughter wanted me to do those things, because they’re just as bad for one as they are for the other. Neither is welcome in my home.
By the way, why did you mention men and women having different roles? I thought this whole thing was about respecting women, about not making snide comments about them. You can believe men and woman have different roles in life without putting anybody down, unless you really are a chauvinist.
Stitch:
I’m not really sure why I was brought into this, but if anyone’s interested in what Ken’s saying, here’s the posts he was referencing:
Fortunately, no one is. We’ve all heard his story more times that we heard “Just As I Am” in IFB churches, and that tune’s grown old.
Bard — Did you link posts? Nothing is showing up.
“The coward rushed over to Laurie Moody’s twitter feed after I confronted him”
That’s the Laurie Moody feed I’m talking about.”
What in the world does that have to do with anything? Bob Bixby posted something as a fact when IN FACT he was just making things up and when confronted about that he rushed over and asked Laurie Moody if she could supply the information to him about something he had already posted as a fact. http://ksblogs4u.blogspot.com/2011/12/bob-bixby-school-of-publishing-publish.html
What’s your objection?
“I thought this whole thing was about respecting women, about not making snide comments about them.”
As far as I’m concerned the snide is all in your mind.
“I’m really fighting the urge to explain myself, but really…there’s no need. To my own Master I stand or fall, no one else. Thank God.”
I’m sure you extend that same mind set to Chuck Phelps?
BTW, I didn’t bring you up, someone else did.
“You put down what women write, simply because they’re women.”
Un, no. I stated a preference for reading things from a men’s perspective. I don’t have to like the emotional and drama laden blogs that some women write.
Or blog comments they engender.
No, Bard didn’t post links. Stitch did(awesome blog linking, btw), about 4 posts up and Bard “quoted” her post(w/o the “quotes”).
My first post here. Just want to say that I SO enjoy your blog. THANK you for being moderate and for not seeking the complete & total annihilation of BJU(and all remotely related entities) b/c they shipped you. You are quite the classy guy. Funny too! My husband and I both get a kick out of your phrasing.
I was at BJU from Fall ’97 – Spring 99 and was there for the infamous Vienna Boys Choir incident(One of the boys flipped another “the bird” & a short time later the fire alarm went off). Oddly enough, the fire alarm went off again during the middle of chapel either the next day or the following week, which I thought was strange if it had, in fact, been set off on purpose to put a stop to the VBC artist series. Maybe there was a giant anti-vulgarity conspiracy(unlikely, as Jr was still kickin’) though and both events were purposeful. Maybe BJU really would put THOUSANDS of people in harms way & risk the legal liability not once, but twice. The first to stop the VBC profanity & the second…well, who knows why they set it off the 2nd time. ;-)
I went to BJU b/c it was the most logical place for me to go. My Dad graduated from BJU(but wasn’t gung-ho about the place, by any means.), the christian school I attended was attached to a church whose big-wig pastor was on the board of BJU at one time(not sure if he still is), so there was a LOT of emphasis to go there, most of my high school friends were going there & they had/have a great music program. My parents were broke as a joke for most of my childhood, but they said that we had to go to at least 1 year at a christian college(after that, it was up to us) and that they would help us pay for our time there. The list of schools they gave us were MBBC, Northland, BJU & Clearwater. BJU was the one I was the most familiar with, so I went there.
“Stitch did(awesome blog linking, btw), about 4 posts up and Bard “quoted” her post(w/o the “quotes”).”
OK – thank you. And thanks for the compliments. You’re very kind and I appreciate you reading.
Ken, you can dance around the issues all you want. You are disrespectful to most people I’ve seen you interact with, and especially disrespectful to women.
“But I’m a man. I like manly things.” – So you get on blogs and debate with the women you have previously insulted. Seriously, I’m only a casual reader of blogs, but, one thing I’ve noted. Any time you show up to comment, it usually means the asinine, inane comments will begin and any serious discussion of the topic will be flung out the window for more of the irate ramblings.
Your rough, abrasive nature might be appealing to some, but for the most part, I think everyone in and around these blogs is just getting tired of it. And please, don’t diminish the name of Christ by pretending you do it to stand firm on some “godly” standard. It is what abuse is always about, control and intimidation. You might feel better about yourself by making others feel badly about themselves, but to most of the rest of us, it is a very transparent veneer of insecurity.
Well “Paul” thanks for your observations and opinions, limited though they may be. And when people use names that are a jumble of letters I have no way of knowing their sex until they identify it. And to be honest with you, I don’t really care all that much. I mostly ask questions at blogs, and that’s only on an off and on basis. So since you have no ability to refute anything you claim about me with facts, you resort to saying I claimed some kind of “godly” standard and that I’m about abuse?
Man, you must have gone to Jocelyn Z’s University of Lie Telling.
““The coward rushed over to Laurie Moody’s twitter feed after I confronted him”
That’s the Laurie Moody feed I’m talking about.”
What in the world does that have to do with anything?”
Nothing, really, and I don’t object. It’s just that you asked what a Laurie Moody feed is, that’s all.
As for the rest, we will just have to agree to disagree.
(Just like a man, reference somethng and then forget what he’s talking about. Oops, did I just type that? That would be such a snide remark to make. I’d better delete it.)
“It’s just that you asked what a Laurie Moody feed is, that’s all.”
I don’t understand what that has to do with anything in your complaints about me. I just stated what happened. If he had rushed over to Podunk Charlie’s twitter feed to ask for facts AFTER he published his article I would have said Podunk Charlie.
I’m not trying to get the last word here, but out of respect for the CEO could anyone with complaints about what they think about me send them to me?
Well, I won’t belabor the point, especially with such big news coming out of the U yesterday. I’m anxious to move on to that topic. But I will say, Ken, that you make comments on lots of blogs, and to the extent that those comments are public, people are going to make comments about them and you. You’ve made comments about Tina Anderson, JZ, and other people, and you have that right because their stories have been made so very public. We’ve all made lots of comments about Phelps–again, fair game, since what happened with him and what he did was public, especially after it came out in trial. And you have put yourself in the public eye, too, therefore do not be surprised when people make comments about you. And this all applies to me too–feel free to comment about me as you wish. For my part, I will try very hard to refrain from attacking you as a person, but I will point it out when you make demeaning comments about women.
“For my part, I will try very hard to refrain from attacking you as a person, but I will point it out when you make demeaning comments about women.”
As you wish…
OK, first of all, I do not write like a man. I write like a grown up. Camille Lewis and most of the “disaffected” write like junior high girls. It’s not a gender thing but a matter of professionalism and precision in writing. Remember, professional writing has been (believe it or not) a discipline populated mostly by men, so even the people who try to score writing by gender have a slanted scale of measurement. They weight analytical text as masculine. It’s not masculine; it’s analytical.
Next, the Do Right group plagiarized two of my articles, copying and pasting them in full on their page without my permission. I put a note on my blog telling them to stop doing that, and they went all junior-high-girl on me, throwing a tantrum and calling me names (and excommunicating me from the group). I got a nasty message from one of their admins. She sure sounds like Cathy Harris (who previously plagiarized one of my articles in full), but then, maybe all nasty people sound like Cathy Harris.
Anyway, I really did think you were being too hard on them, Mr. CEO, but I see now that you were pretty accurate in seeing through the facade. I think I became convinced that you were correct the moment one of them wrote a poem in honor of themselves. That was even before they stole my material.
“I really did think you were being too hard on them, Mr. CEO, but I see now that you were pretty accurate in seeing through the facade.”
Jeri — Once I figured out that the source of The Disaffected’s disaffection was NOT Bob Jones University, their motivation, actions and conclusions became predictable and transparent.
In my opinion, when you have a bunch like this who are being disingenuous at every turn, you can never be “too hard” on them.
Ken, You are hard to like. You are the very kind of man women avoid like the plague. We can detect you coming a mile away. I am sorry for your wife. “Tear in [your] eye”, my hind leg. If you have a tear in your eye it is not because of your great love for your mother/grandmother; I think you would only be able to cry for yourself, your discomfort, your abuse. Jesus was a great lover of women; He elevated and honored them. You should, too.
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